All photos are available in Those Damn Sportbikers
Fox Atlanta ran an interesting piece on their nightly news about how motorcyclists are ruining...everything.
Part 2 is online now. Notice the bogus on-board clip they show of a Hayabusa accelerating to OVER 200mph withing about 4 seconds. They also show a lot of people passing their camera van, but you have to wonder how many of those people were waved around.
I'm not saying that some of this "reporting" isn't justified, but it's so one-sided and obviously sensational.
28 comments:
The problem is "the knuckleheads" live in a very small universe where nobody else's rights exist outside their own. You can't argue with them, reason with them, or even talk to them because they won't listen. Nearly all motorcyclists ride with care and prudence. In the face of these violent wrecks, it won't take much for legislatures to act to restrict our sport. And if we as a community can't ride responsibly, then perhaps we will deserve whatever draconian measures that government chooses to impose.
We're a minority out there, people. Remember that.
Ya know, even those sport bikes that do manage to stay in their own lane still run well beyond the speed limit...and that is causing almost as much trouble for bikers as the lane crossers and the 150 mph'ers. Cagers don't see a difference between the two...to them they're all equally liable to cause problems on the road. And, to some degree, they are right. It doesn't matter if your skill sets are good enough to allow you to double the speed limit and still keep your lane...it's still a public road and conditions can, and do, change without warning. If you want to run at those kinds of speeds you should really go to a closed track before the scenic riding is ruined for us all.
Yes, I ride a Harley. No, I don't hate sport bikers. But there are certain roads in East TN I avoid like the plague because I know the sport bikes are going to be there...and they're going to be running excessive speeds. I have seen two of my riding buds taken out by sport bikers who thought they were riding within their limits, only to find out through the expense of my friends that they were exceeding their limits. That's the problem...you take a 20 mph curve one time at 30 mph...then the next time you want to do 40 mph...and so on...until eventually you exceed your abilities in a given curve. Even those that I have some degree of respect for...i.e. killboy...still exceed their limits and go down. If you don't take out someone else in the process, it's just dumb luck.
I'm a biker that has been riding since '71, and more and more I see the sport bikers as a threat...I'm sure the cagers see them as an even bigger threat...and in many cases they are correct.
John
Did that one anecdote say a bike came around the corner at over 100mph and they show a 20mph corner? I WANT THAT BIKE!
And they keep harping on the noise. Sorry, but most Harleys are louder than sportbikes, and they take longer to pass by.
13 fatalities in two years? That's alot better survival rate than a few intersections here in Philly.
Svspecter nailed it - its all relative. I'm sure they could do a great story on big-rigs overturning in most parts of the northeast corridor that would shock the hell out of people.
The acceleration video is of a turbo hayabusa. The video was easily found online. Pops up as one of the first vids when you type in 'turbo hayabusa video' in google: http://www.uponone.com/sortvideos-speed-viewed.php (top video)
also i'm skeptical as to the 153mph reading. seems awfully high since it was a group of bikers that went by and the speeds of the riders varied so much. I'm not too happy with reporting they've done. They really tried their hardest to make us all look bad
That's a great outlook you have that everyone that purchases a sportbike deserves physical harm, regardless of riding manner. Aren't you late for a Klan meeting or something? I find it interesting that a person with so much blind hatred toward motorcycles would find their way to an enthusiast website in the first place. Go figure.
Mickfeely.. thats the most ignorent statement Ive heard in years did you know that the Autoban is one of the Safest roads in the world? do you know why? because all drivers have a respect for other drivers.. somthing that should be done much more out here.. if somebody gets passed out there by a motorcycle some jackass in an SUV doesnt try to run them over because they somehow feal offended... like what happens so many times in the states.. by your statement all vehicles should be banned.. because you know what.. every single one of them is a guided missle when they come in contact with somthing.. so lets play it safe.. everybody walk from now on.. because you know what.. its not the vehicles fault that sombody is being careless behind the wheel.. I acctualy do own a sportbike.. a 2000 Yamaha YZF-600R.. and you know what? I do like to take it around corners as fast as Im legaly allowed.. there is this one road marked 55mph.. and yes.. I take it at 60mph.. which in NY is acctualy legal your allowed 5mph.. and motorcycle speedometers generaly read a couple percent slower than your acctualy going.. anyway.. theres a 20mph curve thats on a 60mph road that I constantly take at 60mph.. I keep it in my lane.. theres never any traffic on it.. the roads been replace with a much straighter road and pretty much only motorcycles and preformance cars are ever seen on it anymore.. but most of the time.. I just use my sport bike to cruise.. I have a very short back, and very long arms and legs.. therefor I acctualy sit on my sportbike very much like you probobly sit on your cruiser.. I can even lean back on the sob.. so before you go generalizing that people only buy sportbikes to go fast.. maybe you should talk to a couple of us.. I know one guy in his 50's.. has a sportbike.. never breaks the speed limits.. never goes fast.. oh and by the way.. I used to know a 24 year old guy.. great friend of mine.. loved the look of my bike.. went out and got himself a suzuki GS-500 brand new 2 years ago... never speeds.. always rides UNDER the speed limit, always goes the suggested speed around corners.. he was killed by a speeding harley rider in HIS lane on July 1st.. Any idiot on ANY bike.. can be a hazzard.. as can Any fucktard in a car
This story is the epitome of the "if it bleeds it leads" type of sensationalistic journalism. If you can call it journalism. The folks who do your local news, with the exception of a few, are not professional journalists, they are professional talking heads. It's all about the angle, the slant or the hype. I worked in that industry for a few years reporting traffic and I do not trust local TV news. I ride a sportbike, and like you all, have seen the squids and avoid them like the plague. But, statistics show the new riders in their 40's+ on big cruisers crash in larger numbers than sportbikers. This was not pointed out in the story. A squid is a squid, no matter the type of bike or the age of the rider.
If the guy clocked at 153 was really doing 153, that was some really good braking, hauling it down more than 100 mph in that short distance.
I will be going out today and will likely speed, and I will come home having not harmed a soul. There is a time and place for everything.
I get the feeling Mickfeely and Roy Dietch are not familiar with the biker community, and "knowing a guy with a bike" is not enough. It's better to ignore people like that.
Sensationalized Yes, Accurate, I doubt it.
150 mph takes time and distance on any road.
My last ride on the loop, two weeks ago was highlighted by a red church van that cut me off and blocked me on a passing zone. I finally had enough, and passed. I was still in the left passing lane. As I passed, he wagged his finger at me. At Neel Gap, I pulled off to wait for my wife on her cruiser. She was hot, the guy had done the same to her. A few minutes later, we were passed by a pickup with a trailer full of logs. He took up both lanes in the passing zone until it merged to one. He then slowed to a snails pace.
Poor driving exists with all types of vehicles.
The speeding motorhome pulling the car, or the hunters with trucks stopped on blind corners talking, or the leaf watcher driving 10 mph, may all be as dangerous, but they won't make the evening news.
We can help our cause by not speeding past stores or churches. Gear up a couple as we pass homes and businesses. We will make less noise, and not draw attention.
For the people who were involved in the crash, I pray you find peace. Anyone who has experienced a death in a MVA will be changed. I just hope they learn that not everyone rides poorly, but everyone may make a mistake.
WRITE TO FOX GUYS!
There is a link on Darryl's included Fox clip.
Remember, there are more of them than there are of us, and if we are going to be heard, we must speak up. Speak strongly, but be polite. If we don't it will be just a matter of time until they overwhelm us.
"Same goes for sports cars, sporty cars, high HP cars and even sportier cruisers...heck anything with a suspension not designed for luxury...and any motor over 100 HP. Lets ban them all and hope the owners die. Heck harleys are only good for being loud and holding up traffic, lets ban them too."
If you were being sarcastic, then yes, I misread you, and I apologize.
I'm sad to see my fellow sportbikers making excuses ("that news story was propaganda/sensationalized/one-sided, WE'RE not the problem")...well, those of us who ride like that ARE the problem. And, I'm willing to point my finger at more members of the sportbike community than even the news story did, which was careful to state that it was a "very small number" of sportbikers.
Darryl, you know the reality, so the tone of your own original post was a bit disingenuous. You and your staff KNOW what people do on roads like the Dragon, Shady Valley, and the Georgia mountains...you're taking PICTURES of them, FGS! What more evidence do you need? Just on this very page, you have a picture of a certain "local" riding dangerously above the speeed limit (unless he has some top-secret way to get his bike over that far at 35mph)...and he's somebody who should know better.
I won't even ride at Shady Valley any more...the sportbikers there have become such a menace that I find the entire venue too dangerous to be fun. I was once forced off the road at the Dragon - on my sportbike - by two sportbikers who were riding totally insanely. And trust me...I know the etiquette of slowing on the straights to allow riders to pass; these guys passed me on a curve, which is why I ended up in the dirt. And contrary to what the news report said, it's not "mostly inexperienced riders"...no, unfortunately there are a lot of skilled riders who are part of the problem, riders whose skill level exceeds their responsibility level.
Oh, and for the guy who tried to make light of the "300 crashes"...ummmm, how many motorcycle crashes do you know about where people got the bike the hell outta there - especially if it was rideable - before the police ever knew about it? Quite a few, hmmmm? So if there are 300 REPORTED crashes, how many REAL crashes do you think there were? 1,000? 2,000?
Government can be an ugly thing, my friends, and trust me: if this sort of riding behavior continues on the public roads, government is gonna step in and make life unpleasant for all of us. I can see Big Brother all too easily passing regulatory laws to limit displacement, horsepower, and top speed.
Do you all really want to see that s**t happen?
Well, then please treat the public roads as the transportation facilities they were built (with taxpayer money) for...and use the privately funded tracks to practice the top-speed kneedragging adventures.
If we can't get members of our own brotherhood under control, who is going to?
Pardon my blogger name...I usually post at a local government issues blog. :-)
As far as possible future legislation, there will never be a displacement limit imposed. You can thank H-D for that one - they consider 1200cc to be a little girls' bike. Horsepower limits may be somewhere down the road, but considering a 100hp bike can run 150mph and 11-second 1/4-miles, does it really matter how much more horsepower people want to pay for?
I'm not a fan of the government imposing more laws on the people (especially when current laws are not being enforced, but that's a whole 'nother discussion). But, the only thing that will make a real impact is a tiered licensing system like parts of Europe have. It would force new riders to start small and actually learn how to ride on a bike that they are LESS LIKELY to kill themselves with. True idiots can and will kill themselves with a pocketbike in a parking lot, and no amount of legislation will stop them.
Just watched Part 2. Again, I want that bike that supposedly did 153mph around a 20mph curve! I wonder if they used the same radar/laser units that have been known to clock trees going 60mph?
And when you watch that Hayabusa run, look at the speedo, the tach and THE ROAD. I don't know what 200mph looks like, but that road looked like it was going by more like 120-130mph. Did that 'Busa have a kph speedo?! And how did it continue to climb up 15mph while the driver was shifting? Methinks that was a staged video that the news station found on the intraweb. Nevermind that you have to bypass the restrictor on the Busa to go that fast.
Oh, and that news station stole Electronic Arts' sports games slogan!
ummm I posted that the vid is real. it's a turbo hayabusa. see my post earlier that goes over this
If you have a Netflix account rent "Outfoxed: Rupert Murdock's War on Journalism". Then you'll understand what kind of morons are creating this so-called "news". There are indeed plenty of riders who don't think and consider others when they ride, but fortunately there are intelligent humans out there who understand the difference between real news(like NPR) and sensationalized, dramatized entertainment for the masses(like Springer and just about all of Fox news). For everyone else, have fun living scared and hating the world.
Well, what other opinion would you expect from someone selling sport bike accessories. You fools still don't get it. It isn't about whether they provided fair coverage compared to sports cars, truckers, etc. It's about what they reported, sensationalized or not, about your particular interest. Let's say they did a segment right after the sport bike segment on lane crossing truckers. Would that lessen the danger posed by the large number of sport bikers I see doing this kind of crap around East TN, Western NC, and North GA on a regular basis? Easy answer...NO! I didn't need news coverage to know about the stuff they showed...I experience it on a regular basis riding my own bike in this area. You all are not upset because the coverage was "slanted." You're upset because they showed what all of you don't want average Joe Public to know...that you endanger peoples' lives on a regular basis. And don't spit out any more crap about the biased, sensationalized news coverage. All I have to do to see it is get on my bike and take about a 30 minute ride through the mountains.
Disgusted and popoman have it right...these are public roads, and you should ride them as such. If, in order for you to have fun, you need to ride these roads in such a fashion...grow up, take on some responsibility, and take it to a track.
It's an easy cop-out to say we should all just "obey the law" or "take it to the track". Fact is, the laws are constantly changing. Why?
Because they're often wrong.
Our speed limits are increasingly diminishing, while the road surface is improved, and vehicle performance and safety are improved. The speed limit used to be 55mph on the Gap, then 40, now 30. Why? Accidents? Congestion? Does that really solve anything, or make it worse?
Our passing zones are increasingly disappearing, while the vehicles are more capable of making safe passes.
Everything is dumbed-down for the lowest common denominator, and those with the machine and ability to move along above a snail's pace are "MANIACS" who refuse to obey our all-knowing government.
And as for track days...there aren't enough track days in a lifetime to satisfy the average person's riding requirements in a year, nevermind the expense.
Well John, it actually is quite important to tell the truth when reporting the news, and reporting that someone was doing a buck-fifty-three in a quarter mile straight-away, and having time to slow down enough for a sharp curve is an all-out lie. Also, the fact that no "sports bike" riders were interviewed and given a chance to speak is pure bigotry. Whenever some politician is caught fucking his cousin, the media at least try to get a comment from someone representing him, but I saw no attempts to interview any sportbike riders. It's that whole chickenshit mentality- people cry about everything that bothers them, but never do anything about it. You sit on your ass and say "well, when are 'they' going to do something about this crap". Guess what John? We and you are "they". When I'm at the Gap and I see someone riding/driving and not using their head, I'm not afraid to tell them about it, and I encourage you to do the same. You have come to the right place if you don't like people who ride sportbikes in a hazardous manner, because we don't like them either, we want to keep them weeded out so they don't wreck the scene. I think if you will go back and read my first post you'll not find any denial on my part that there is a problem, but to group everyone in the same category is just wrong.
You are very confused about why a motorcycle crash happens- I rarely see a crash on the Dragon that is a result of exceeding the physical limits, but I do see crashes that result from people riding beyond there own skill level. In fact, I see more cruisers crashing and crossing lines as a result of exceeding actual physical limitations than I do sportbikes. I spend a ton of time on racetracks, and I do agree it is the best place to be if a person wants to go fast, but not everyone works for a track day company like I do, and it is quite expensive to attend even a modest number of events per year. As far as my "opinion" based on the fact that I sell sportbike accessories, I would probably make more money if everone went to the track, since there are far more crashes there, and if you had taken the time to understand what product I sell, you would know what I mean. I hope you will take the time to understand that we share the same feelings about riders who are not fully in control and disrespectful to others on the road, because anything short of that is just finger-pointing. Some of the people you are arguing with on this blog are the most passionate about making 129 safe for everyone to enjoy, but you're calling them fools, while you should be thanking them.
killboy wrote:
"...The speed limit used to be 55mph on the Gap, then 40, now 30. Why? Accidents? Congestion? Does that really solve anything, or make it worse?"
Both, IMO...in general, accidents and congestion are always the reasons speed limits are lowered. The way it solves the problems is that the LEO's can stop and ticket motorists traveling above 30mph, which hopefully eventually teaches the motoring group as a whole to slow down.
Noah wrote: "...I do agree it [a track] is the best place to be if a person wants to go fast, but not everyone works for a track day company like I do, and it is quite expensive to attend even a modest number of events per year."
Darryl made that argument too, as did a poster on a forum I used to belong to...it's a horrible argument. What, if something you want is too expensive, you obtain it irresponsibly? I can't afford an R1-LE, I can't afford a Ferrari, I can't afford a mansion in that (hideous) gated subdivision at the CRoT end of the Dragon...so I should steal those things? It is the height of selfishness and irresponsibility to say "I can't afford track days, and I'm entitled to ride fast whenever I want to, so I'll simply treat the public highways as my own personal track".
Noah wrote: "...You are very confused about why a motorcycle crash happens- I rarely see a crash on the Dragon that is a result of exceeding the physical limits, but I do see crashes that result from people riding beyond there own skill level..."
So I take that to mean that if you are of a "higher" skill level, you won't crash when taking a hard turn at track speeds?
This argument is the one that annoys me the most, because it is so self-righteous: "I am a highly skilled rider and as such am entitled to display those evolved skills on the highways without regard for the safety of others, because I am always 'in control' and will never crash into the path of another person." The so-called "skilled" rider doing that stuff angers me even more than the newbie in a literbike who's way above his head...because the experienced rider represents the sportbike community and, as such, should be held to an even higher standard of conduct and responsibility.
Well...anybody watch MotoGP the other week? What did my boy Rossi do, eh? Crash? JMO, but I think Valentino is more "skilled" than 99% of the street riders at the Gap and North Georgia...so - and this is breaking news, folks - "skilled" riders crash too! When you crash at the track, though, you're endangering only yourself and others who have elected to ride at that venue; when you lowside across oncoming traffic into my path on a public highway, you're endangering me, and you have no right to take my life to satisfy your own need for 10/10ths riding on the public streets. Yes, I am that selfish.
As for the news report: yes, Noah, I question the accuracy of the 153mph radar reading at that moment, although it's not impossible. The story reported what was seen on the unit's screen. Anybody who's ever fought a speeding ticket in court is at least moderately aware of the potential for inaccuracy in radar readings.
Whether it was 153 or 100, though...it was way to fast for a road with a speed limit of 45.
And as for not having any sportbike riders interviewed: I posted elsewhere that IMO that was the biggest flaw in the news story. On the other hand, be careful what you wish for...if they had interviewed one of the riders who had been doing that sh*t, he or she would probably have spouted the same "entitlement" attitude so many here have posted...and that would have made us look even worse.
I think popoman summed it up best: "Get this through your heads - the problem is us. These are public roads. Riding is not a sport. If you are on a public road, it is a method of transportation. It only becomes a sport if you compete. If you want to ride like a racer, if you want to compete in a sport, then go find a racetrack."
Stay safe, folks.
"The so-called "skilled" rider doing that stuff angers me even more than the newbie in a literbike who's way above his head..."
Congrats, you just won the award for the dumbest thing said on this blog.
At this point it is clear that you are merely a hater. You assume when I talk about skill that I am referring only to riding ability, but there is more to being a skilled rider than how fast you can negotiate turns. A skilled rider is also aware of his surroundings, including other users of the road, and understands the consequences of crashing. The skilled rider also avoids 10/10ths riding on the highway. You act like anyone who exceeds the speed limit is just suicidal, and wants to crash. Comparing someone who crashed in a race trying to win a world title to a rider on a public road is just childish and unintelligent, so you might not be eligible to debate here afterall. Thanks for letting us all know that Rossi is more skilled than the 99% of us, though, that's a real breakthrough. now, if we could just find that other 1%, we could go after Rossi, and maybe even Hayden!
"...in any democracy, if the majority of the people want the speed limits, then they stay."
The USA is a Republic, not a true democracy. We elect officials, and then spend the next 4 years hoping they do what the majority of their constituents want.
Maybe things are different below the Mason-Dixon line, but I don't ever recall getting the chance to vote on things like local speed limits. As far as lobbying for a change, all it takes is a few "friends" of a politician that have an opposing view to negate months of petition-signing and lobbying.
Yes there are some idiots out there, but this "news" story is blowing many things out of proportion. The claimed 153 mph on a short straightaway is one egregious example, and another is the hayabusa clip. Look closely at the screen, even if you are the fellow who posted the clip. The digits running around the inside ring of the speedo are smaller, and correlate with mph, while the figure quoted for the top speed comes from the KPH figure on the main outer ring.
... are you stupid!!! wtf the hayabusa clip is real. it's a frikin turbo for god sake! 80 - 220mph. Thing probably has 300whp easy. The vid was made in Florida too btw. sheesh...
Unfortunately, like in many other things, it's the few who draw the most attention. Every single day there are millions of motorcycles, cars and trucks on the road and the vast majority have no problems. Only a small percentage even have accidents. An even smaller percentage have an accident where an injury is caused and smaller yet where there is a fatality. It's that small percentage of tragic incidents that garner all the attention. I'm quite sure that we all have driven a car in a city and witnessed the absolute insanity that is rush hour. How come the "I-Team" didn't do a story on that? Because the cars aren't going "153" and passing going into blind corners on pretty mountain roads. The bottom line is this: any time you are operating a vehicle with wheels and a motor, be it a garden tractor or a turbo 'Busa, you are operating a deadly weapon. It might be deadly for you or it might be deadly for someone else. (Yes, people get killed on garden tractors from time to time.) You still have to respect the machine. You also have to respect the rules we all use so that we don't go around creaming ourselves or each other on a more regular basis. That's why we have those double yellows painted on the roads. A lot of the passing I saw in both parts of the videos occurred on double yellows and I saw a number that occurred approaching blind corners. Come on folks, you're asking for trouble doing that. And, we have many examples of why that's dangerous. A cursory glance at Killboy's excellent pictures provide ample evidence of the vehicles on the wrong side of the road, trucks, gravel, etc. Fortunately, most of us know that it's dangerous and don't do it with the reckless abandon shown in the news story. We also know that there are places where we, as experienced and capable motorcycle riders, know we can pass safely and will do so. There are also places where we can use the ability of the motorcycle/rider combination and increase our rate of travel (zoom!). As a rider, you have to constantly assess the risks. Unfortunately, for some, their risk assessment ability is lacking as is their riding ability. Most of the high end sport bikes I am familiar with have greater capability than most of the riders who operate them. As an instructor, I have students in every MC class who've never been on a bike before in their lives but have a full-size Harley, or a race-prepped sport bike waiting in the garage for when they get home on Sunday afternoon. Scary. Some of these folks are the ones whose asses write checks their bodies and motorcycles can't cash. Then we get to read about them on the front page of the newspaper and see what's left of their rides on the 6 o'clock news or as part of an "I-Team" investigative report. What a shame.
Killboy and friends constantly preach policing ourselves to prevent problems and they are right on the money. We have to encourage responsible riding or face the consequences. Several of the other folks who posted on this thread mentioned that. I agree wholeheartedly. If we don't clean up our own house, someone else is going to come along and do it for us. We may not be happy with the results.
"Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" George Carlin
Thanks for the cool and level-headed reply engineno09. I hope you ride like you post.
I apologize for my uninformed reading of a small and pixellated video. You are correct in that the video shows mph, but the newscasters claim that the video shows the bike "accelerating to over 200mph in four seconds." This is an exaggeration as they do not state the speed it starts from. From my estimate based on the video timer, it looks to be about 11 seconds from slow roll to 200. Still danged fast and much faster than anyone needs to be going on a public road. This in no way negates the fact that we all need to ride and drive as though we care about the other users of the road. Piss enough other people off, and stupid things happen, like LEO crackdowns on our favorite roads, vigilante justice-types laying oil patches and trees down in the blind corners and so on. At least ride as if you care about yourself. I have seen the results of a high speed bike/car crash on the highway from McMinnville to Chattanooga, and you only need to see that once! Ride carefully, and realize that the next van you pass on the double yellow could be a news team...
blueminiwagon - I posted like that cause I was frustrated. I've mentioned it 3 total times now. Made a comment early on saying it, then again, then that reply you saw. When people keep replying saying oh it's fake or in kph it just boggles my mind cause it's been mentioned...
I hate to see riders turning on each other. I donot care what you ride. I have been riding since 1969 and have owned all kinds of bikes over the years. I have a 05 electra glide and a 85 vmax. I have rode fast and hard also over the years. But when I got caught speeding I didn't say well the harley riders or did you see the sport bike doing the same thing. I just faced up to it and took the blame. Of course I have been lucky by not killing myself or someone else. I guess were I am going with this is we need to police ourselves. When I started riding the public saw us as hells angel and didn't want anything to do with you at all. So do we need bad press now as the public has accepted us more? Public roads are no place to test your limits or press them. As I have kids now and one rides a gsxr 600 I do not want someone taking him out just because he rides a sport bike. I guess with age and living through when riding wasn't cool I have changed the way I think and believe. We need to be responsible for our actions at all times. Also we need to promote our sport and show people that we belong on the roads. We do not need big brother setting limits for us. We should do that ourselves. If we want to be respected we must first show respect. I know this is going to fall on deaf ears as this is a all Me way of life now. We are our own biggest problem.
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